Grier said Miles was pretty sick.
They didn't try hard enough to get the ball inside to Manresa.
[closed]
USF
(54 posts) (12 voices)-
Not sure how it's Grier's fault that Cameron Miles is sick.....
Posted 7 months ago # -
Dogpatch
MemberI HOPE Miles was sick, because he was just as bad, if not worse than Ginty. He walked right into the USF trap 3 times in a row and threw the ball away each time. Terrible game for him last night.
I have not seen Miles' big games this year (I think he had 8 points one game and played pretty well) so I can only go on what I've seen, but I am not impressed.
Between him and McCollum, I am REALLY concerned about the point guard position next year.
Based on what we have now (Miles, McCollum, Crescencio, Manresa, Rancifer, Ginty, Dorr) next year could be a disaster. I sure hope Vozzola is ready to carry the team!
On another note note - what's with Grier subbing 4 guys at once? I haven't seen him do that before. I don't know if it is a good or bad strategy, but it seemed to slow us down when we were rolling in the first half.
Posted 7 months ago # -
Dogpatch
MemberSo here's a big question for the group:
Next year is Grier's 4th season. I'm assuming that we won't be much better next year (at least early) because we will be so young.
The year after - Grier Year 5 - will be Manresa's junior year / Vozzola's sophmore year ,etc. At that point you would think we will be good for a few years.
The question is, if we are not good in Grier's Year 5, is he in trouble? Would Snyder make a change if the program hasn't prgressed after 5 years?
By the way, let's just blame Ogie the Golfer for the loss last night.
Posted 7 months ago # -
Blue Usd Fan
MemberFirst off I just want to say, while I feel bad for De'Jon this isn't a catastrophic loss by any means. De'Jon is known for that clutch shot against UCONN and his gritty defense during that WCC tourney. It stinks his career is probably over since I believe it's the third time he tore his ACL, but we have to move on like dogpatch patch has pointed out and move on. This team was obviously in rebuild mode, long before De'Jon gotr hurt.
This is my take on the Grier situation as it stands right now. I think it might hurt him that he set the standard so high his first season. What people fail to forget was BJ, Gyno, and Rob Jones were all Holland recruits. The only recruit that was Grier's was Trumaine and look how that turned out.
Year 4 - I expect us to not only compete with Gonzaga and St. Mary's next year, but I expect us to be top 3, if not top 2 in the whole WCC. These are my expectations based on our recruiting class (best in conference), and the fact that I think Manresa and Miles are both developing rapidly. Plus I think the Toreros could still land another big man recruit in Vander Joaquim or Godwin Okonji (HOUSTON SCHOLARSHIP). I think a 3-4-5 of Rancifer, Fajemisin and Manresa could be pretty solid next year. My worry is the PG position. It's obvious Vozzola is going to come in here and be our starting SG for the next couple of seasons, but who do we put at PG? Dorr? Can't dribble. Miles? Can dribble, but can't shoot. I would have really liked to see us keep pursuing Jordin Mayes, but that ship has sailed. I would say my favorite is Jordan Mackie, because I think with a strong summer, and improved grades he can show Grier was he is made of.
As for Years 5.....I would say if Grier finishes with a record similar to this year, even with freshman, you can him and move on. There are too many college coaches out there right now who would love to have this job and know exactly what to do with it. Honestly, I like Grier's class next season. It shows a lot of promise and Vozzola seems to remind me a lot of Klay Thompson. Oversized SG with a very very polished 3 point shot.
Posted 7 months ago # -
RS-09
MemberFirst off i think everyone is very aware that they were Holland's recruits as that always seems to be brought up whenever anything goes wrong with this team. However, lets also not forget that it wasn't Holland that coached them into wins at Rupp, wins in the WCC tourney and against UConn. Whatever you want to say, Grier was at the helm when it mattered and lead them to those victories. While Grier gets his constant knocks and has some serious flaws in my mind as a coach, i still think he is a great coach for USD to have. Like i said, he may have several issues when it comes to inspiring players and building their confidence but one thing you can say is that the guy sticks to his principles. He doesn't care who the player is or how critical the game is, if someone is out of line or in violation of his pre-established rules, he will not hesitate to suspend them. While that may anger/annoy many of us casual fans who simply want to see wins, that is that attitude you need to have when building a program for the future. Very few of us actually know what goes on behind closed doors and, therefore, don't have any credibility in saying whether a player should or should not be suspended. The second Grier quality that i believe we must give him credit for is the fact that in his limited time here he has started to put this program on the map in recruiting circles. While Holland may have been a more personable guy from many accounts, that clearly did not translate over to recruiting as the players we went after were guys that we were competing with low mid major schools for. Grier has almost instantly been able to attract top caliber talent that are getting looks from Pac 10 schools and other legitimate programs throughout the country. Again, as a fan do i enjoy spending my nights watching us lose to low caliber teams because we have stupid suspension issues? Of course not. But then again you have to realize that Grier probably doesn't enjoy it very much either as his job/livelihood is in jeopardy with each loss. Clearly the guy has principles and has an idea of how he wants to build this program and where he wants to be in a couple years and, for that reason, will not sacrifice what he believes in simply to get a win. While it would have been easier for him to play suspended players last year and bolster his win percentage to receive additional offers from Pac 10 schools, he elected not to do that but instead to send a message that no player is above the team. For that, i think he deserves some credit rather than complaints demanding he be fired. Anyways, sorry for the rant. I just think that while Grier could benefit from some growth as a coach and a motivator, he also is a huge improvement to what we have had in the past and is putting this team on the right path for the future. Give the guy some time and patience...
Here's to no more injuries for the rest of the season, continued growth from Grier and the freshmen, and to my man crush Ben Vozzola going down as the greatest player in WCC history.... : )
Posted 7 months ago # -
RS-09
Memberalso while you're not going to replace the impact and abilities of bj and dj instantly i think we will be fine for the next few years at the guard positions as Miles (much better shooter than you give him credit for), McCollum (thought homeboy was going to the NBA...?) , Vozzola and Mackie all appear to be competent and capable ball handlers. However, I don't see us challenging for any sort of WCC supremacy (let alone top 3) for at least 2-3 more seasons. even that is a big if as gonzaga and st mary's don't appear to be relinquishing their respective crowns or taking their feet off the accelerator not to mention the rest of the conference is gradually improving as well...
Posted 7 months ago # -
jumpman22
Memberwhile you're giving grier all this credit and praising him to be the best we've ever had...why dont you give him credit for his hard and fast business move when he hit usd up after running the wcc tourney? you know...the raise...the extension...or whatever order it went in. usd was on the losing end of that deal...and you have to give the guy credit for capitalizing on the moment. just sayin'...while you're out praising him and giving him all this credit...don't forget the contract.
[door slams]
Posted 7 months ago # -
Dogpatch
MemberGood discussion - I'm not sure how I feel about Grier yet. There have definitely been some big wins. But if it wasn't for the WCC Tourney win and the UCONN upset, I don't think many people would be happy with the transition so far.
I'm also amazed how fast times goes - we are at the end of season 3 already. We've had one mediocre year that ended about as great as you could ever possibly hope for. We've had the most disappointing year ever in season 2 and this year will be remembered for the numerous ways we've lost games and a sub .500 record.
So far the jury is out - while the W-L record indicates we are going in the wrong direction, the recruitting suggests much better days ahead. The general rule is that you give a coach 5 years to prove himself, once he has a chance to cycle through all his recruits. Because of the school and conference, I think Grier will get at least 6 years even if years 4-5 are sub par (which I don't think they will).
I think next year will be up and down because we'll be so young. But I can definitely see us getting stronger as the year goes on and the young guys start to get more comfortable. The next few years after that we could be pretty dangerous.
Posted 7 months ago # -
jumpman22
Memberi think 5 years is stretching it...6 years is out of the question. i know the job revolves around recruiting but like i have said in previous posts, we are not at a big disadvantage compared to most wcc opponents when it comes to rosters.
all i know is if i took a new job offer tomorrow for way more money than im getting now, my new boss would want results right away. there is no employer out there that will give me anything close to 5 years to produce results. usd really set the bar too high for themselves when they invented the phrase "upper quartile"...it was in every paper and on every website. top 2....? really? right....
Posted 7 months ago # -
Dogpatch
MemberTrue, but when Oregon St. was pursuing Grier I think we extended his contract twice - USD can't afford to pay the coaches too much per year (relative to other D-1 coaches) so they kept adding years to his deal. I'll bet he'll have a pretty big payout if we fire him after 5 years. I think his original deal was 3 years.
Posted 7 months ago # -
I'm pretty sure USD does not release specifics of contracts so I'm not sure how people here are guessing and using conjecture on what may be in Grier's contract or not. So to just assume USD executed a bad contract is a stretch - unless someone can provide some details about the contract perhaps its time to drop the guessing game....
USD does not share specifics on contracts as USD is a private university and not subject to public overview....this is from the USD website on Grier signing an extension in 2008...
http://usdtoreros.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/031808aab.html
Posted 7 months ago # -
jumpman22
Memberno need to get excited.
just fans having conversation.
just sayin...we all know its private; we all know its big money.
good for him...he made himself a huge deal.
win or lose he gets paid big.
not a bad situation for him to be in.meanwhile back at the ranch: lets beat scu tonight.
Posted 7 months ago #
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